I know nothing about theology. I am a secular Jew who hasn't gone to a synagogue in years. I am also proudly Jewish. Until a few weeks ago, I was barely aware of some Mormons habit of baptizing the dead, including those of other religions. Though the LDS has officially ban the practice, it has continued by individual Mormons. In the past, one target had been those Jews that died in the Holocaust. As I said, I was barely aware of the practice until a few weeks ago, when Historiann run two posts about the practice. I suggest that you read the posts in order: this is the first one, and this is the one that came later. The comments section was fascinating. I learned a lot about where the practice come from and different readers opinions about it. Some found it deeply offensive, others just a "harmless, well-intentioned" practice. Thanks to those comments, I learned why the practice is offensive to Jews from a theological point of view.
I am not religious, and I still found the practice offensive. I only left one comment, on the second post. I will plagiarize myself and transcribe it here.
As a secular Jew, with the history of forced conversions we’ve had in the past (and I am not equaling both practices), I found the Mormon practice highly offensive. And from one of the links in a comment above, I found out that they posthumously baptized slain journalist Daniel Pearl, who was forced to say in a video made by his executioners before being murdered “My father’s Jewish. My mother’s Jewish. I’m Jewish.”
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53618070-78/church-baptized-jewish-pearl.html.csp
I find the LDS church posthumous baptism of Pearl abominable (yes, less abominable than the murder in itself, but what the LDS church did still makes me want to puke).
My comment is very simple. While the debate was going on, Meshalim, another blogger, published her own post on the subject of the posthumous baptism of Daniel Pearl. Yesterday, she wrote on the subject again, in what promises to be the first post in a series. Her deep academic knowledge of the subject, combined with a beautiful prose, touched me like few posts ever have. I just want to appropriate the last sentence of her first post:
But for now, please, just leave my dead alone.Exactly.
To be clear, I am not aiming my own post at the Mormon Church as a whole or to individual Mormons per se. It is definitely not a post against Mitt Romney (though I could write one about it, I feel uncomfortable questioning a candidate's religion, so I doubt I will). I don't expect everybody to agree with my position or my feelings. I understand that others might not see what the big deal is. I just want those who do not see why passions can run so high on this issue to respect (instead of dismissing as an innocuous practice) those who feel offended. I hope it is not that much to ask.
"I just want those who do not see why passions can run so high on this issue to respect (instead of dismissing as an innocuous practice) those who feel offended."
ReplyDeleteSeriously.
I do agree that it's distasteful, and I understand why some are offended, and I do think they should stop doing it. But, I agree with David Plotz from Slate that it seems like no big deal if they do continue:
ReplyDelete"If you believe Mormonism is nonsense, then what difference does it make? And if you don't believe it is nonsense, then it helps you get to heaven. Why do people take offense?"
Also from this article, there's a description of Mormon theology. There is no forced conversion with these posthumous baptisms. The posthumous baptism just gives the dead the opportunity to say yes or no to the religion in the afterlife. So, again, if you think Mormonism is hogwash (which, if you're not Mormon, you probably do), then it really doesn't affect you. Who cares what mumbo jumbo is uttered when someone else is submerged in water? And if you don't believe it's hogwash, then you have a chance that you wouldn't otherwise of getting into higher levels of heaven (I think even non-Mormons (and non-Christians) go to heaven in their theology, but just live at a lower, less good level of heaven).
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/im/2012/03/posthumous_baptism_was_it_wrong_for_mormons_to_baptize_daniel_pearl_.html
How dare you be offended? Don't you know that only people in the majority are able to tell you when you're allowed to be offended? If white protestants or atheists don't find this practice offensive because they think Mormons are just silly, then you shouldn't either. (Also they think your religion is silly, but they think it with the deepest respect, unlike how they feel about those ridiculous Mormons. That whole Holocaust thing, dontcha know.)
ReplyDeleteAlso offensive when religious bigots tell me they're going to pray for me or when priests pray against gay marriage in church. Even though I seriously doubt God is taking their prayers seriously. It's the thought that counts. Jerks.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Grumpies. Exactly.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous: may I suggest that you read about the history of the Jews? From the pogroms in the Middle Age, to the forced conversions and the expulsion from Spain, and then, if you want, the Holocaust. You may then understand why, even though I am not religious, I find the practice highly offensive. If you still don't, just take my word for it and respect the feelings, even if you don't share them.
My comment was to the first anonymous.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if I came off as offensive in my comments. I'm not apologizing for this behavior at all. I agree with you that it is offensive and that it should stop.
ReplyDeleteMy point was that we're talking about a religious minority that jumps into something like a swimming pool while reading some names. It's not a coercive state apparatus. They're not rounding people up into camps and burning them. They're not ripping them from their homes and stealing their property. They're not forcing them to make public displays of faith in order to even have a chance at making a living. They're not killing Jews, and Jews aren't even singled out for this practice. According to Wikipedia, they've also baptized notable anti-Semites, including Columbus and Hitler. How can posthumous baptism be like a pogrom or the Holocaust when the practice includes the authors of the most famous anti-Semitic acts?
I don't believe in Mormonism, so it just doesn't matter to me what they do in their temples where only Mormons are admitted. But, I very much understand why you find the practice offensive, and I'm sorry to have written my initial post in a way that made it seem like I don't respect your feelings about this. I do respect them and understand them. I also find the practice offensive, and I hope they stop.
For what it's worth, as an active Mormon (and an avid reader of your blog!), I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you regarding the Holocaust baptisms and am ashamed that they have continued despite the promise from the church that they would stop.
ReplyDeleteI am glad that the church has issued a fairly strong statement here:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/violations-of-proxy-baptism-policy
It seems as though they are taking steps to remedy the situation. I just hope it is enough.
@Anonymous #1:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the additional comment. I guess what motivated my post was not so much the practice in itself but some comments, both on the two posts I linked to, and in at least one Mormon blog that called itself progressive (that I looked for but cannot find again), that were saying that those who get angry over the practice are magnifying the issue. The reasons they put ranged from that it was wrong but well intentioned, to atheists saying that since it is all blah, blah and you do not share that system of belief, then it is means nothing. The only thing I was asking was not to put down the feelings of those who, not even being religious (like myself), feel offended.
As to whether they are a coercive state apparatus, no, they are not. But that doesn't mean that they beliefs cannot have an effect in the political arena. Proposition 8 is the most obvious example. Or, to change churches, the Catholic Church and the birth control issue.
@Anonymous (last one): thanks for your kind words and your support.